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Amanda Kramer: Every episode, we have an LBIdea or a key takeaway. And our key takeaway of this episode is simple and yet complex: take the risk.

Welcome to the Leeds Business Insights Podcast, featuring expert analysis to help you stand out from the herd. I'm your host, Amanda Kramer. We are thrilled to be discussing the business of life with Brock Weatherup, Leeds alumnus and consumer growth board executive, three-time exit startup, CEO, founder, multi-billion-dollar C-suite leader, and active early-stage investor.

Welcome to Leeds Business Insights, Brock, and thank you so much for being here with us today.

Brock Weatherup: Super excited to be here. Go, Buffs.

Kramer: Yes, always, as always. Well, let's ground our listeners first, Brock, in a little bit of the history of your career and how you have gone from what you might consider yourself to be a successful startup guy to receiving a diagnosis that ultimately changed your life and created an opportunity for you to pause and reflect. Could you tell us a little bit more about that, about where your life has taken you?

Weatherup: Yeah. So, I mean, I'll, kind of, put the punchline here at the beginning and then get back to the story, which was, you know, about 18 months ago, I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. So, you know, kind of, awesome 50th birthday to, you know, receive diagnosis of an incurable neurological disease. So, you know, that started a reflection on, kind of, what was going on in my life, what I had gotten to this point, where I can, and what I can do going forward has been quite the challenge and quite the reset. My wife describes it as I was at a forced midlife crisis.

So, let me, you know, jump back to where I got to and then how it has, kind of, affected me since then, which was, had a great four years in ¶¶Òõ´«Ã½ÔÚÏß, graduating with a marketing and tourism recreation degree in 1994, and started my job working for... or my career, working for American Express in New York City, which was an awesome experience, to start. I, kind of, looked at it as my MBA. I have not gone and gotten my MBA. So, loved my undergrad, but I wasn't necessarily the greatest student inside a classroom. I figure I'm a student of life, but a little less so in the classroom.

Left that. And what that started was into my modern, sort of, career, which I would say is really on starting and building things. So, originally, was what at a, at a business that's now called InterActiveCorp, people would know InterActiveCorp for the amazing brands that have been under their umbrella, things like Ticketmaster, things like Expedia, things like Home Shopping Network, CitySearch, Match.com, and a whole bunch of others. So, was part of that in the original, sort of, inclination of it to go public when it was Ticketmaster Online–CitySearch. This is '99, 2000. So, in, kind of, the first internet wave.

Spent about eight years there, doing a number of different businesses. Left that and did my first "true startup." I'm a huge fan of sports, and was able to, kind of, join with some folks who had a lot more money than I did at the time to invest in a business and start a business called Fathead, big wall graphics up on the wall. And so, created a consumer product business, and this great brand that we're super excited to launch, and took it from zero to about 40 million in all of, basically, two and a half, three years.

Exited that, and then, started in my, what has been much of my journey for the last 15 years, which is in the pet industry. And so, it was at a business called PetFood Direct and turned it into Pet360. We ended up selling that to PetSmart for close to 200 million, which was a great and exciting exit to go into that, became the chief digital officer of PetSmart through a take-private. So, we were public. We went there, taking private. So, I'd say that was a really interesting exercise, but I can't say it was the most enjoyable exercise of being taken private.

And then, left, started another business in pet called PetCoach, the whole world of telemedicine for pets. Create a great consumer platform. And we're only doing that for a little less than a year. And then, we were acquired by Petco, where I became the chief innovation, chief digital officer of Petco, where I spent the following two years as part of the leadership executive committee. So, myself, the CEO, the CFO, and the head of merchandising, basically, we're the head of the company. And that was a great experience. Left that and started another business called Great Pet Care, Metamorphosis Partners, which was about three years ago, so about six months before the pandemic started. So, luckily, we were a virtual group before virtual was cool.

In the middle of that exercise, during the middle of 2021, was when I was having all these crazy things that were happening around my body, you know, was having things like some instability in standing. I had some what really triggered it was I woke up one morning and I picked up my phone, like we all do, and lots of things, and I couldn't see it. It was basically a blur.

It was fine a little later in the day. And so, I chalked it up to a whole bunch of other things and a bunch of other stuff that was going on, as I kept telling my wife, like, "I just don't feel right." Really hard to go to a doctor and say, "Hey, I don't feel right." They can't do much with it.

So, finally, you know, advocated for myself, which is what you, you know, fortunately or unfortunately need to do in today's, kind of, healthcare system. And got this, frankly, life-changing diagnosis of multiple sclerosis, which is an autoimmune disease that attacks your brain and spinal cord. Things you don't want to have happen in life is something attacking your brain and your spinal cord. I'll never forget the first MRI that I had when it first came out. And the quote of the MRI was, the first line of it was, "Patient," a.k.a. me, "has enumerable," a.k.a. too many to count, "lesions in their brain and spinal cord, a multitude of which are substantive in size and length," things that you don't want to read about yourself. And that started my, kind of, next stage of journey in my career. And that's what I'm a ways into and figuring it out, if I'm being totally honest with you. And that, kind of, brings us to much of the conversation here today.

Kramer: It's been quite a journey, Brock. Thank you for walking us through that, to go from these different startups to having great success in the pet industry and then to receive this information that is shocking and reorienting in many ways. And we're so appreciative that you are willing to talk with us and reflect back on your life and think forward about what it means to consider your own life as both a business and a personal adventure. And we'd love to hear from you a couple of, kind of, the key foundational features that you believe are important and how they've impacted your life and how you look at them, moving forward. The first one we would start with is this notion of discipline and goal-setting. Tell us more about how you view this.

Weatherup: Well, I think it's so critical. You know, we create this discipline in our professional lives very well. I've got to put my budget together. I've got to put my strategy together. I've got to figure out what my resources are to go after those things. How do I execute and utilize that? And, you know, like everything, it's limited. You don't have unlimited time and you don't have unlimited money. So, what do you do from there?

That same practice I brought into, kind of, my own life. And frankly, it was led by modeling of my mother and father. So, my mother and father started about 20-plus years ago with this, like they call it intentions. Originally, it was goals. And they did it as a couple, and they created different, sort of, formats to it. It's been adapted to something that my wife and I use. And so, the really basic format of it is, there are four sections. So, the first section is, what are my personal goals for me as an individual? What are then the goals for me as a husband, married now 22 years to my lovely wife, Mary? And third is, what are my intentions as a father? I have two daughters who are 18 and 20 years old. And then, the last but not least, which is always the hardest one, which is the intentions for my wife.

Now, the important thing, you have to put the same discipline against those intentions, as you would anything in business. They have to be measurable. They have to be tangible. They can't be... The goal of, I want to be a better person, or I want to get in shape, don't count, right? Nobody would allow those sorts of goals of, like, be more profitable, would not be an acceptable goal in your business, right? And just much like being healthier in your personal life isn't an acceptable goal. You got to put some tangible nature to what that does or doesn't mean.

And so, whether that's, is it realistic to believe that I am going to be able to meet the goal of exercising seven days a week? Unlikely. Life happens, you know. Is five reasonable? Is four reasonable? Okay. You know, you write it down. And just like anything else, they have to be measurable. Creating that foundation of goals and intentions really helped, kind of, create a structure, professionally and personally, to have what you need to, frankly, try and be successful in this thing called life.

Kramer: Absolutely. Thank you so much for walking us through that. The next ingredient that you've mentioned in the business of life is this notion of building your personal infrastructure. Tell us more about this.

Weatherup: Spending the time to invest, again, all these things take time and energy, is, you know, how do you put together the people that are around you in your life? I was very lucky to meet an exceptional person in my wife, Mary. And we've had a, you know, incredible life together. And she is, you know, the rock in my life, which is awesome. And she's gone on all these adventures with me, as I've tried to start things and take risks and do things. And I couldn't do that without her being my partner.

That also includes, how do you do the rest of things that go along with it. So, it doesn't necessarily require finding that partner in your life, but it's just, who do you have around you? How do you invest time in your friends? How do you invest time in people that have mentored you or have taken you under their wing? And how do you appreciate what they're giving you? And how do you pull all of those things into your conversation, so that you have this network of folks, so that you can go out and do things in life? How do you find that, sort of, balance to keep you grounded, but yet, moving forward and being supported? And that is the whole collection of in the good times and in the bad. And I've been very lucky and, well, lucky with a lot of effort. I always, kind of, describe things as being lucky. I don't think people get lucky if they don't work hard. But you have to get lucky, also, to find success. So, you've got to work hard and be lucky. And that's how you're able to find success. Because there's plenty of people who work really hard who haven't gotten lucky. I've been lucky to have both, but I don't think you get lucky without hard work.

And so, whether it's that friend group that's around you that is supportive and how do you, kind of, eject people from your friend group that aren't being supportive to you and aren't being there for you when you need them, then we all know who those folks are. Like, you know, get them out of your life. Find the people that are supportive. And by supportive, it doesn't mean people who are like, "Yay, you're the best, Brock." It doesn't mean that. It's the people who are truly there for you and care about you genuinely. And how do you find that sort of mix? And so, finding those sorts of dynamics is, kind of, critical on what you do.

And so, spending the time to build that personal network and invest in it, is really what I think allows somebody to, kind of, move forward and be great. And you got to functionally and intentionally spend time to do it, because it doesn't happen naturally.

Kramer: Absolutely. Thank you for walking us through that piece. Another piece we're interested in exploring with you, Brock, is this notion of comfort finding risk and living life with a risk-forward attitude. You've had a diverse career with these exits, with these different challenges. And it seems to me that there would be risk involved every step of the way. How do you build your comfort with risk and live with a risk-forward mentality?

Weatherup: I put it towards, you have to have two things to take that sort of risk. You have to have a personal network that's around you to support you, because it's not easy. Period. End of story. I can say, like, I told you my story. All of that sounded like, "Yeah, I started this. And I grew it to this. And we sold it for that. And then, I moved on to the next thing. And then, I built this and I sold that," and like that's all the story gets told, but the real story is all sorts of mess underneath it that is really hard and really difficult. And you have to work through all of those things to, kind of, get from here to there. But again, if you have the infrastructure, again, that personal infrastructure and the intentionality in your life, those two things allow you to find success with it, if you're willing to be open for it.

But you have to be ready to go do that and know that, hey, things fail all along the way. Okay, how are you going to get out of it? There's been many, many, many failures in that path in spite of me telling you the story that didn't sound like there were. We had opportunities when we were selling Pet360 to PetSmart and that whole process. We signed the deal, we were done. We signed the LOI. We were in the process. We had 30 days to get definitive docs and get it closed, you know. And this was life-changing for me and for everybody in our team and our investors.

And, you know, about a week before we were supposed to close, I get a call from the CEO of PetSmart saying, "Hey, the deal's off. Like, it was done." I'm like, a little bit, like, sort of, those things where you're like, okay, so, like, it's kind of like you're dating, and you're like, okay, so, like, are we, kind of, broken up but we're going to get back together?

But the deal was dead. Period. End the story. You know, my wife walked in right after that. I remember I was sitting in the dark in the front of our house in Pennsylvania. And she, like, walks in afterwards and she's like, "This isn't good, is it?" And I was like, "No, it's really, really not." We were in a tough place because we had, kind of, gotten a little too far out over our skis with some of our capital and everything else.

And so, we were in a bit, a bit of a desperate situation. And we had put a whole presentation together on how we were going to reduce our staff by like 30, 40%. And 10 days turned into 10 days later, the CEO calling me back and saying, "Okay, Brock, we want to do the deal." And I'm like, "But wait, you said we were like totally broken up, never got a date again. That was a very, very low point, that 10 days before, you know, granted. It was only 10 days. So, you know, let's be realistic. And fine, you know, we got to that point and like it worked out great. But without the support network of my family, as well as my coworkers who invest a lot of time in, and my investors all, kind of, like locking arms, going, okay, like this is a punch square in the nose and we're bleeding. Okay, what do we do about it? But everybody did it together. And you can accomplish a lot with that. But you have to take the risks to start it.

Kramer: Wow. I am so inspired, as I listen to your story and hear about how you were able to recover from some of these setbacks. And so, one thing I'd love for you to share with our listeners is, you've talked about the importance of, kind of, building momentum in your career. And sometimes, that means reframing making job decisions, considering a lateral move versus a step-up. And you like to say, let's reconsider what the ladder looks like as you climb it. Help bring that to life for us. And perhaps, tie in how that helped you persevere through different challenges that you faced.

Weatherup: Yeah. So, the perfect example and another colossal failure of my career happened at the end of Fathead. So, probably, the single job that I probably get most recognized for, get most, kind of, positive accolades for was what we did with Fathead. We created this incredible brand. And obviously, we were, you know, having fun with people's sports fanaticism. And people love their sports. Look, people are pretty excited about what's going on in Buff Land with Deion Sanders, right? Like, okay, there's a lot of stuff around sports.

Kramer: Absolutely.

Weatherup: So, while I had taken it from zero, basically, to almost $30 million in the end of 2018, we had gone through a process of potentially raising some capital. Frankly, the money that was in our bank account got swept out and was put elsewhere because I didn't control the company. While I was the CEO and had a very meaningful stake in it, and I had put a lot of my personal wealth in at the time, like order magnitude, in retrospect, it was probably 40% of my liquid capital — so, half of my wealth I invested in the company.

January went through this very brutal, sort of, experience of not having capital. We couldn't pay. We literally had to run a promo at the beginning of January to raise money so I could make payroll on Friday. It was literally that bad. And it went through a whole bunch of things. And so, I literally had wrote a document, and I was going to go in and resign. And I had talked to my leadership team who knew all the stuff that was going on. And it was, you know, kind of, I walked in to do that. And I got fired.

So, the end of this amazing thing of Fathead was I got fired. And I love what I built there. I'm incredibly proud about what I built there. The people that worked for me there are still some of my very, very best friends. And we feel incredibly proud about what we've done. And there's a whole lot more basket of mess that's underneath that, that got that all there.

I was really down. Oh, by the way, let's go timeframe-wise, this is now February of 2009. So, the low point in the last many decades of the stock market was in March of 2009. So, I'm now the CEO of this, or was the CEO of this business. I'm living in Michigan, where I have no family. My money that was in this business, I didn't know what was going to happen in them in control. And I was like, what am I going to do? What's going to happen in my career? It was the greatest possible thing that ever happened to me.

And the reality was I got introduced to a whole bunch of people that were in consumer venture capital, because those were the potential investors in Fathead. Then, when I left, again, mind you, this is the low point of the last financial crisis. This is March of 2009. And I'm looking for a job. Ended up getting introduced to this group called LLR Capital that was in Philadelphia, that had made this investment in this thing called Pet Food Direct that was troubled. They were looking for a turnaround CEO. I had gotten introduced to them because of somebody that we were out pitching Fathead six months earlier, so on and so on and so forth.

And that got me the opportunity to go in and try and turn this Pet Food Direct around, which then became Pet360, which is what we then sold to PetSmart, greatest step in my career. It was phenomenal. Was it incredibly hard to get from here to there? Absolutely. But my point of that is what you think is the risk and what you think is the reward versus what creates the greatness is to stay positive, keep taking steps forward, keep trying to move. And again, like, I was very lucky in that sort of scenario because I had my wife next to me. I had the support of family and friends. And so, I ended up in the pet industry, which has been, frankly, incredibly valuable to me for the last 15 years. And I would never have thought I would ever be in the pet industry. But here I am. And it's worked. And it's been awesome.

Kramer: Wow, what a story. So, how do you know when you're ready to take a risk? Or, another way to look at it is, how do you overcome the imposter syndrome you may feel as you prepare to take a risk?

Weatherup: The reality is you shouldn't feel ready. And what I mean by that is I would say I have not been qualified for any job I've ever had. And I'd say this is something that I've also been very, very adamant about in talking to my daughters, which is, I would also say, a male-female thing, which is the reality is, and you can read all sorts of studies everywhere, men are more typically willing to step into something and say, "I can figure it out. I can go do it, even if I'm not qualified," to the other side, for a lot of women, it's like, "I got to make sure my resume is all the way there, my experiences are all the way there, before I get to that job." And so, I would always encourage folks like, go for it. Give it a try. Like Wayne Gretzky thing, right? You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. You may not get the job, but go for it. You'll learn. You'll figure it out. You'll figure out the next thing. And you'll learn from that, sort of, experience of applying for the job that you're not qualified for, even if you don't get it.

And that builds then into, kind of, how do you then become a genuine leader, right? Because I think I know a lot, but I sure as hell don't know most things. You walk into a new office on your first day of the job. Like, everybody else knows where the bathroom is, but you don't. So, okay, well let's check one. Somebody tell me where the bathroom is, right? And then, there's 1,000 other questions that are behind that. And if you walk in going like, "I got this. I know what I'm doing," like, you're going to put off everybody around you. And you're not going to learn. You're not going to be able to be great at your job because you think you know, when reality like is you should be a complete listener. You should ask questions. You should have an insatiable appetite for knowledge and learning. Spend the time to listen and learn.

Kramer: So, every episode, Brock, we have an LBIdea or a key takeaway. And our key takeaway with this episode is simple and yet complex: take the risk.

Weatherup: Take the risk, because you never know what's going to happen. At the end of the day, all these professional things and personal things that were risks, some of them have worked out, some of them didn't, some of them had huge bumps in the road to get from here to there. And, you know, no greater curve ball than getting this diagnosis 18 months ago, which, oh, by the way, has led me now to be, kind of, frankly, rethinking what the rest of my life is, because this thing that I've done, which is my normal thing when I don't know what to do, is to think about an idea, grab a few people, and go build a business. Like, that's what I've done my... And that's what I feel really comfortable in. And that's what I feel really excited about. And that's where I get a lot of joy. And that's what I get a lot of fulfillment from.

And I got to take that sort of thing of being an operator leader, and I've stuck it on the shelf. The stress dynamic of that world does not work for my health. And I need to, kind of, just manage that in a different way. And again, I feel very lucky and very privileged that I can make that decision, because many most people who have MS or a disease like it can't decide to, you know, get out of their job by selling their company and creating a financial, I'd be like, that's ridiculous. And that's the lucky part, right? Yes, I worked hard to be able to get lucky, but I definitely got lucky.

Afterwards, I'm now an operating partner at a middle market private equity firm. And what does that mean? Or, what is that job? I didn't know before I got into it. I'm figuring it as I'm into it. I feel a little bit like an imposter there when I talk to my wife or people who are close to me. It's like, that being said, I think I'm adding a lot of value to them. I think they're getting a lot of value for me. And that's great. But that's a new way for me to do business and life, which is very different how I've built my entire career. Because how I've built my entire career, I can't do anymore. And that's a really unexpected sort of thing. So, if you don't take the risks and you don't take stride, you don't know what will happen in life. And it doesn't have to be necessarily a medical thing, but all those other things of, how are you going to end up and what are you going to do with it? And the reality is, take the risk and embrace the knowledge that comes with it.

Kramer: I love that. Well, thank you so much, Brock, for joining us today for this podcast episode. And we wish you the very best with your health journey, as you move forward.

Weatherup: Thank you very much. I've been lucky. I've been working hard for it, but I'm very lucky. And thanks for having me.

Kramer: Thank you again for listening to Leeds Business Insights. Don't miss a single episode, subscribe to Leeds Business Insights wherever you get your podcasts. You can also find more information about our podcast series at leeds.ly/LBIpodcast.

If you’ve enjoyed this episode, you may also enjoy Creative Distillation, an entrepreneurship research podcast from the Leeds School of Business. Check it out at pod.link/creativedistillation.

Leeds Business Insights Podcast is a production of the Leeds School of Business and is produced by University FM. We'll see you next time.